It would be best for the USA and the World if there were no USA. We need a World Government and a reorganized world economy that will direct us toward a world without war or want. That however is more than likely decades into the future. In the mean time we should be working in that direction.

Sorry but I disagree with your world view.

We definitely disagree on that one. I'm a student of history. I have family that went to concentration camps in Nazi Germany and fled Eastern Europe during Soviet domination. To argue that the world would be better off without America is just silly.

No, I don't think America is particularly special in the grand scheme of things. We have some unique characteristics and have represented a force for the betterment of the human race... and sometimes we have been a force for horrible exploitation and suffering. Our history only seems especially terrible until you start studying other countries' histories. Sadly, we're right in the middle of the pack.

I think that America will likely play a very significant role in peacefully uniting the planet eventually. But think about it this way.... Would Russia or China really be better at bringing about world peace? Would we rather have Athens or Sparta win??

> Why don't you try getting mad at the traitors who keep politicizing vital national issues... The Republican Party.

The current Republican Party is essentially fascist. It is the supporter of corporate rule, militaristic ideology encluding "support the troops" and a distastful form of nationalism. Democrats voting with the Republicans are fascists.

Sorry but I disagree with you.

BTW I can understand that it is sometimes wise to compromise and/or do what is expedient. No sense losing everything over one issue.

However, this was a vital issue and I doubt it was just a question of expediency for all forty congress critters. I suspect these people are warmongers.

Lewis,

It's fine that we disagree. The debate is healthy. I think that it's important that we all remember that we can learn a great deal from each other while working together.

The fundamental difference you and I are running into here is whether or not the Democrats are worth voting for. In my view, we need to break the Republican strangle hold on the country first and foremost. I believe that democracy, for all its flaws, is better than the available alternatives and that there is still a chance to bring democracy back to America. Finally, having grown up inside the Republican elite, I know very well that they disdain democracy and will do whatever they can to subvert it and convince the masses that it's a waste of time.

You view seems to be that there are only a few decent Democrats and that the rest are just as bad as the Republicans. If that's the case, then it would seem to me that democracy in America is beyond salvation and that activists should be building a bona fide "people's movement," like Solidarity in Poland, instead of arguing about politics.

Am I correct that you see the system as being irreparably broken?

Finally, as a gay man, my view is that ANY Democrat is better than any Republican (even the supposedly non-bigoted ones) right now. Bush is using my tax dollars to fund anti-gay hate groups, like Focus on the Family, to go on TV and tell people that I'm the boogie man. Sooner or later, even more people are going to start thinking it's okay to attack us physically for being gay... after all, they've been hearing on TV that I was sent here by Satan to destroy America, ruin your marriage, and rape your children. Having a Democrat-controlled Congress might help cut off the supply of tax dollars to these groups.

I think Iraq and the War on Terror are very important to America. I have written a lot about them. But, when push comes to shove, Bush's scapegoating of gays hits me where I live.

You might be right, Lewis. It's just that I've seen Rove pull this same trick on the Democrats so many times now. Frankly, I think they don't know whether to take a dump or ask for seconds.

John, I am not unsympathetic to your view. I have said that if there is no choice than it is better to vote for the Democrats. BUT that is a strategic position, not a moral position. (And not always a winning position).

Both in the long and short run it is better to fight for the most left (moral) position possible.

It would be best for the USA and the World if there were no USA. We need a
World Government and a reorganized world economy that will direct us toward a world without war or want. That however is more than likely decades into the future. In the mean time we should be working in that direction.

I agree. The war in Iraq is not morally justified. I emphasize strategic and practical approaches because, after all, politics is the art of the possible. In moral terms, I don't think war can be justified. Even WWII is only justifiable because of the extreme danger the Axis posed to the future of humanity. In practical terms, Iraq is a disaster for this country.

My real question is how does PDA move forward when we argue about moral absolutes rather than practical possibilities? If we're confronting growing despotism in our country, isn't it time to focus on defeating that as thoroughly as possible... exposing it in a way that causes Americans to recoil in horror?

Iraq is a disaster for the world as it has stirred up all sorts of animosities and has empowered crackpot right wing Islamists. To my mind the major culprits are the Likudniks in the USA and Israel. Somehow we on the left have to pressure them to call off their dogs. We have to stop with the wide spread anti Muslim rhetoric. We have to stop with the worship of all things military. Right now I think the most promising thing in this country is the World Can't Wait. They are disorganized which is surprising for so called Marxists but they are taking the moral high ground which in my view is very important. I know many supporters of PDA are working with the World Can't Wait but I think closer cooperation should take place even if under the table.